Sewing question

[colliemommie]

Okay, my dream is to not have to wear a separate set of stays under my Italian Ren gown. To this end I am possibly overdosing on interlining.

The main bodice, which is sleeveless and a very low v that covers maybe half my breasts and clasps at the center waist, is made out of fashion fabric, one canvas interlining cut on the grain, one canvas interlining cut on the bias, and the lining. I thought the bias cut interlining was pretty genius, since it will hopefully prevent stretching along the forty degree neckline.

It fits pretty well, but does nothing to give me a period bust. I plan on attaching the stomacher permanently on the left inside bodice, and using hooks and eyes on the right side.

To make it flatten appropriately, I'm thinking of doing fashion fabric, buckram, bias cut canvas, buckram, grain cut canvas, lining. I figured the buckram would add a lot of stiffness without adding much thickness.

Does this sound reasonable, or have the pregnancy hormones taken over?

Also, can I use Venetian lace on the neckline of a Florentine gown, or is that a no-no?

(I feel like this should be tagged "help me starlightmasque, you're my only hope.)

Comments

[starlightmasque.livejournal.com]

You are too funny!!

As far as I know, Italian gowns were only stiffened, they didn't wear stays. The Venetians were stiff as a board, with a kind of cardboard and glue built into the bodice. Today's Venetian ladies either wear stays to mimic this, or bone the bodice, or stiffen it some how as you described above. I say ditch the stays and stiffen the bodice! I used boning and a heavy duck cloth to hide the bones. The Florentine ones, though, very said to be soft! Not stiff like the crazy Venetians.

I wouldn't put any lace on the Florentine neckline... most of the paintings out there didn't have any lace on the gown-- just on the camicia underneath. I think a cluny lace would look more like the old style lace they used, a venise would be okay if it was small and airy enough.

I could be wrong, I'm certainly no expert! I just love love love these kinds of gowns and can't wait to see yours!

[colliemommie.livejournal.com]

You are Pinterest famous for your Venetians, by the way.

I know the Florentines are supposed to have a "gentle curve" for the bust top to bottom and side to side, but I'm a 34 H when I'm not pregnant. It takes more than four layers of interlining to tame my not-so-gentle curves. (RAWR!)

Thank you for the cardboard suggestion. I was considering a muslin and starch option, like pointe shoes, but that sounds like a lot less work.

I really don't want to wear stays with this, because next summer I should be nursing the baby, and this would be so easy to breastfeed in. Nursing slits in the camicia and I'll be good to go.

And I have five yards of the fabric-store.com 019 linen in the dryer to make a new camicia! I'm super excited.

I have the best ribbon to trim the false stomacher and underskirt. It looks like gold work embroidery with these four-petaled flowers. So far the bodice is done, stomacher is sandwiched and just needs lined and fitted in the bodice, and I have the over skirt pieced and ready to pleat and attach.

As far as the skirt, how would you pleat it? It's split, so I was thinking eight inches of knife pleating on each side of the center front, and cartridge pleating the rest of the way around. I have a ton of skirt width.

[starlightmasque.livejournal.com]

Goodness, Pinterest!! I'm always so surprised when one of my things pops up there-- I love it! I don't feel worthy!

Don't use modern cardboard! That would be a disaster, lol. I don't even know what to use for that. I just used thick duck canvas and bones, and it worked fine.

I've done all kinds of crazy stuff for my skirts-- the last one was just gathered. If you really study the paintings, they weren't cartridge pleated at all-- it looks like they were just gathered! I'm always looking at those waists to see what kind of pleating, and they seriously never look pleated. (Could be wrong, I don't know? Just going by what my eyes tell me.)

[colliemommie.livejournal.com]

See, and some look cartridge pleated to me, and there are a few that really look box pleated.

[starlightmasque.livejournal.com]

I guess the real answers is-- do whatever the fabric wants to do! Some likes to be pleated, some can only be gathered. I don't think there is a wrong answer in this case. Those Venetians did it all. Eleonora's dress simply had a few very deep knife pleats. The Pisa dress, almost the same pattern and era, is gathered. The German and English ones saw a lot of cartridge pleats.

Just curious, which Venetians look cartridge and boxed to you? I'd love to see them! So much eye candy!

[colliemommie.livejournal.com]

Sorry, miscommunication somewhere. I'm making a Florentine circa 1470. Venetians scare me still.

[colliemommie.livejournal.com]

Annnnd half my comment got eaten.

Like I said, I'm making a Florentine gown, from period patterns 42. Some day I'd love to make a Venetian, but I'm still intimidated. I managed to find pictures of two extant gowns online. There's a blue wool that is knife pleated all the way around, and a red velvet that is cartridge pleated. About half the frescoes from that time seem to show cartridge pleated skirts as well, when you can see the gown waist.

[starlightmasque.livejournal.com]

Well, that makes everything I've said moot. LOL!!!! I've never made one from that far back, so we are talking apples and oranges. I have no idea how stiff they were or what pleating was used-- I'm clueless!

Well, now I am really excited to see what you're making, I'm sure it's going to be spectacular!