Catholic Complications

[colliemommie]

Can someone please explain to me why a change of rite from Roman to Byzantine Catholic takes three years? Better yet, can someone explain to me why I have to submit to a change of rite when my paternal grandfather was baptized/chrismated Ukrainian Catholic and the only reason my father was baptized in a Roman church is that there wasn't a Byzantine Catholic Church available?? If we actually were following this much vaunted canonical law that everyone likes to invoke, I should just be declared Byzantine Catholic because the Eastern Rites follow the father's line.

grrrr...

And if one more person asks "Why do you care...it's all Catholic", I'm going to beat them with a Ruthenian hymnal. Maybe I care because I want to officially be a member of the rite in which I really feel I belong. Maybe I want to be a registered member of the parish to which I've been going for the past 18 months (even since I realize they existed here). Maybe because the Byzantine Catholic rite and this parish here are what have kept me in the Catholic Church at all. Maybe because this is part of my cultural identity as well as my personal preference. Maybe I want my children to officially be members of the faith in which they will be raised.

I can't imagine baptizing them RC, going to my Byzantine Church every week and having to send them to RC classes for Communion and Confirmation (and let me tell you, Roman Mass makes little sense to someone used to the Divine Liturgy). Plus, what about if they get married? They would get to be told "Sorry, you can't get married in the church you've attended since you were born because of the paperwork". So yes, that "piece of paper" does matter.

Thankfully Father Reader is being so helpful, because Father really doesn't seem to be very interested. He's very much a letter of the law person, and if the paperwork says I'm Roman, I'm Roman. Nevermind that the paper only says that because the priest who married my parents lied to save himself more paperwork. And if I have to do the three years, I'll do the three years. Bruce will have to submit a change of rite anyway, since he came to the Roman church by way of being a non-practicing Pesbyterian. But Fr. Reader, in between teaching full-time and attending seminary classes in DC twice a week, is researching what can be done, with help from his friends at Chancery. Hopefully we'll have resolution by the time this baby comes up for baptism. sigh

The main reason I'm so frustrated is that I just want to be part of the Church I belong in. If I was Protestant of some sort, this would be a lot simpler. I could start classes now and be happily and uncomplicatedly Byzantine by Easter. I feel like this process is made unnecessarily complicated to deter people from changing rites, despite all the lipservice given to "preserving the Eastern rites". Hey, I'll help preserve one! I'll even reproduce and make more little Byzantines to help preserve the rite!! Me and my husband both...fricking sign us up!!!

Comments

[rockinlibrarian.livejournal.com]

Haha, don't worry, I at least respect that the rites are quite different from each other. I'm Roman, and one of my best friends had a Byzantine wedding, and I certainly did get lost! I think the more similar two denominations may actually be, the more different they FEEL sometimes.... Though, last time I went to a Presbyterian service with my grandpap, I think I was even more lost-- about halfway through I thought, "So when is the actual SERVICE going to start?...oh. This is the service!"

My family back in time was also once Byzantine and switched to Roman I assume because of location, but no one ever went back to it. Of course, there was so much intermarrying between denominations in my family (hence why I have a Presbyterian grandfather-- and a non-practicing Presbyterian mother, at that) that I don't think anyone really noticed much....

Good luck-- may things go as smoothly as possible!

[colliemommie.livejournal.com]

Thanks! It will work out one way or another. It would be nice if it didn't involve three years of kicking my heels, because I would like the Predator to be baptized Byzantine, but otherwise it really doesn't matter too much. I can still keep going to my church and receiving Communion there, so it won't hurt me any. But hopefully the documentation I have about my grandfather will just make it all simple.

Ethnic Cleansing

[(Anonymous)]

Ha! You must be part of the Eparchy of Passaic. Three years is on the low end. For the last 50 years we were told it wasn't necessary to 'change rites'. Now they want everyone who shows up at the door to BE Byzantine, but don't really assist anyone in doing so. They have no idea what they want- other than your envelopes. Google " smithown" and "parishioners" and read first-hand the ethnic cleansing process that emptied that church over the last two years.
Don't bother changing and keep your envelopes to yourself. The general consensus is that they want all the Latins out now, which will leave a skeleton crew in the pews, allowing them to sell off the properties due to declining membership. Go figure. This is the method of Ruthenian Evangelization, LOL.

[ciaobellamamma.livejournal.com]

K, this has absolutely nothing to do with your post, BUT...

I'm ready to start on the books you recommended for me a while ago, and you mentioned The Cazalet series... you said book one was "Making Light", but online I am finding "Light Years". Just to double check with you-- is "Light Years" correct? I wanna make sure I start on book 1.

:)

...and to not neglect your rant:
Yes, being protestant is a LOT simpler. Actually, I don't have to take ANY classes unless I want to become a member of my church, which really only makes a difference if I want to hold some sort of office there... I can still get married there, take communion, etc. Of course, I know that's not the case for all protestant denominations. They all differ so much. Anyway- yeah, I'd definitely be frustrated if I were in your shoes.

[colliemommie.livejournal.com]

Sorry, it's "The Light Years". For some reason I always get that wrong...my brain has apparently decided that Making Light goes better with "Marking Time" than the real title.

Lost It

[(Anonymous)]

Somewhere along the line I think the Byz Cath church has lost it. As if the RC membership rules weren't enough, here you have additional ethnic hoops to jump through. I am guessing this was not the way of Jesus Christ. This exclusive club has lost its mission and subsequently lost its ability to spread the Gospel message, and subsequently will wither and die on the Vine because of it. The Divine Liturgy is beautiful to be sure, but who do they really share it with? Again, not the way of Jesus Christ.

Re: Lost It

[colliemommie.livejournal.com]

Obivously I don't agree with you on this, because then I wouldn't be willing to do what the situation ends up requiring for my children to be brought up as full members of the Byzantine Rite. My experience with the Byzantine Catholic Church is that it is a very dynamic and living tradition. Granted I grew up in Pittsburgh, which is probably the most active site for this rite in the US. Similarly, the local parish here is very active, full of young families, and growing. The "mission" of religion, as I see it, is to foster the individual's relationship with God and the faith community, and I feel the Byzantine Church is dedicated to that still.

No, it is not a religion which puts much time into actively proselytizing, a la many Protestant denominations, but I do not feel that is a lack. A living tradition is not necessarily one which emphasizes the recruitment of new members. Judaism has historically discouraged individuals in the first flush of conversion, but I don't think it can be argued that it has or will "wither and die" as a result.

I'm not sure to which "ethnic hoops" you are referring. The cultural traditions of the church are those I was brought up with anyway, simply by virtue of being of Ukrainian extraction.

Change of Rite

[(Anonymous)]

It doesn't take three years. It takes as long as an exchange of letters from two bishops. Blame sheer lack of concern on the part of the chancellor.
If the chancellor is on top of things, you are talking about two weeks at most.
It's a moot point anyway: your grandfather was Byzantine rite; your father was as well, as are you.

Re: Change of Rite

[colliemommie.livejournal.com]

I realize the paperwork is very straightforward, and that physically completing the process doesn't take that long. But, according to the Eparchy and my local parish, there is a three year wait imposed on anyone wanting to change rite. Apparently this is supposed to keep hordes of Romans from impulsively changing to Eastern Rites and regretting it later. Because, ya know, that happens all the time.

I am trying to get "declared" Byzantine on account of my paternal grandfather. The issue is that, under the new rules from 1980, a child may be a member of the rite of either parent. I was born in 81, and my mother has always been a practicing Roman Catholic. Unfortunately the situation is not as absolute as it used to be, from what I have been told.

Re: Change of Rite

[(Anonymous)]

>>>It doesn't take three years. It takes as long as an exchange of letters from two bishops<<<

While technically this may be right, the former bishop of Passaic made you wait...years. Friends belonging to my parish were made to wait three years. At the end of three years it took another 2 1/2 years. They are still waiting. She sings in the choir. He teaches ECF classes.