Sad face. :-(

[colliemommie]

The most recent post in _marriedlife_ is making me a little sad. I also think it's very representative of how little society values the unpaid work that keeps a family or household running. To summarize, a stay-at-home mom thinks it's borderline inappropriate to buy her husband a present because "I'd be buying him something with his own money".

What the ever-loving hell?!?! It makes me sad that she has obviously bought into the mindset that the only valuable work is paid work. As though the work she does at home with their four month old and, presumably, taking care of the house and doing work there, doesn't mean anything. Newborns are very time intensive, and if the family had to have an outside caregiver it would be damn expensive.

Now I may need a slight reality check here. I come from a cultural background where the women are pretty much always in charge of things in the household, including the finances. Bruce and I have always had a shared bank account and shared credit card account, but I am the one who check statements, pays bills, and does all of the nuts and bolts jobs. In our relationship, he is the one who asks me for money if he wants to buy something for himself. (If not physical money, then the go-head to spend, since I'm the one who does the budget.) I don't think he even has the password for any of the online accounts.

I also put a lot of work into household management and budgeting and maximizing the resources we have. There is no way on earth that we would be able to continue living the quality of life we lead if I was out of the house for 40 or 50 hours a week at a paid job. My value added is far beyond the number of dollars I could bring home in this economy.

Point being, it would never in a million years occur to me to say that the money Bruce brings home in his paycheck is not equally mine. Without me he would not be able to work the schedule he does, and he would not have the education he has that makes his jobs possible. (I paid for his master's degree managing an Ann Taylor store.)

So f-list, whose viewpoint is more representative, in your opinion? Is the other OP having trouble adjusting to a lifestyle where she cannot be judged based on her pay rate, or am I living in a little Ukrainian matriarchy fantasy bubble?

Comments

[skittish-derby.livejournal.com]

you are definitely not in a bubble.. Our house is run similarly, though slightly different. I haven't ever had a well-paying job, and from the time we moved in together I was either pregnant, or taking care of children. He does a lot of the finances, but I can still go and buy things as needed, groceries or whatever. Regardless, that woman makes me sad as well.. I buy into it sometimes when I am feeling sort of down and useless, but Zac always cheers me right up and we both see how valuable I am to the house-- without me, he would be spending a lot A LOT on childcare, possibly a live-in nanny type thing since his work is rotating.

[erinmdmd.livejournal.com]

I, like you, come from a background where the woman managed the home and month-to month finances. We've never not had joint accounts. I emptied my meager savings on wedding stuff so we could close my personal account with less hassle.

[merlyn4401.livejournal.com]

We're set up similarly to you. I manage the household budget completely. I just...my work is equal to his. Everything - house, cars, all accounts - are in both our names. There IS no "mine" and "his", aside from "allowances" we both get. All the big stuff is shared.

[kk1raven.livejournal.com]

I don't think you're living in a fantasy bubble. Marriage is a partnership, or at least is should be a partnership. If all the money belongs to the one person who works outside the house and none belongs to the one who stays home to take care of the child and the household, that's not a partnership. That's servitude.

That being said though, there does seem to be a substantial group of people who place no value on stay-at-home spouses.

On a somewhat tangental topic, I suggest that you make sure Bruce knows where to find the passwords for the online accounts even if you normally deal with them yourself. I've known a few people who ended up up the creek without a paddle when their spouse was suddenly unable to deal with the household accounts.

[noodledays.livejournal.com]

I'd guess a large majority of household with a sahp probably fall somewhere in between? for that matter, where both parents work outside the home, they probably do too.

the bottom line for me is that I don't think it's a good idea for either partner to have sole control to the extent the other wouldn't know or understand what's going on if they needed to.
and it certainly doesn't sit right with me for a partner to have to ask permission for every little expenditure. and I'm not saying that's necessarily the case with the OP of the ml post, just that I've known more couples than I'd like to where that seems to be how they function.

[pinkminx.livejournal.com]

Our money is OUR money, not mine and his. This was clear from the moment we realised we want to be in a committed relationship and live together. W pays the bills because a) our internet bank thingy is in damn German and b) I hate doing it. I put him (us) on a budget, though.

We do have separate accounts for some things: I've one in Finland and W has a savings account I don't have access to because I can't see the point. And then we both have debit and credit cards linked to the 'big' account we use for most things.

[pinkminx.livejournal.com]

PS. I've no idea what the culturally done thing in Germany is, I think there really is no such thing. In Finland people are more likely to have separate accounts from which they move money to a joint one that's used for the basic necessities, but I know couples whose finances are wholly joined together too.

[pinkminx.livejournal.com]

I keep commenting because I feel very strongly about this, too. I'm so full of this "stay at home parenting as vacation" bullshit, particularly when it's proven to be no such thing to me. From a sanity and energy perspective, I would've found going back to work when my spawn was a wee baby much easier than I did find staying at home, but stay at home I did because the idea of putting a small breastfeeding baby into daycare when we didn't need to do any such thing was distasteful to me. (Well, that and the fact we do get 12 months of paid parental leave.)

Amusingly enough we're both doing unpaid work right now in an attempt to get our startup up and running, but neither of us thought of the traditional type of unpaid at-home work as worthless or as some type of a holiday because we're fully cognizant that newborns are intense and needy, that childcare costs and arm and a leg, and that you'll pay the same again for the other necessary props needed for both parents to have full time careers here. Not worth the hassle. And that's without getting to the fact that NOT EVERYTHING HAS MONETARY VALUE. Uuuuuuunfffff hrrrrrrgh wsfgh khhhhhhk.

[agameofthree.livejournal.com]

Nope, no bubble. Our situation is a lot like yours, from supporting my husband when he got his Ph.D., to controlling the finances now. I sometimes devalue the work I do when I get down, but then I realize how crazy-overwhelmed I am and how hard it would be to have to do what I do and work outside the home (even with a 50-50 split of household chores), that I realize how much my worth is.

[carrieb.livejournal.com]

My current thoughts are the same as yours. No way on earth could we have our quality of life if we were both working.

However, it took me a couple of years of motherhood to get here. It was a tough transition and I probably should have gone to counseling or something.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

I don't know where it came from (my parents certainly did not feel/function that way), but I felt guilty about spending my spouse's money during the only time I ever was a SAHS (spouse -- I've never been a mother). He didn't feel that way, AAMOF, I think it bugged him that I felt that way, but I did. For some reason, I need my money to be paid to me, for some specific thing I did, otherwise I feel guilty about spending it.

My relationship with money has been much more healthy in the last twenty years since we split up [wry g].

So I'm not so sure it's a societal thing, and not an individual psychology thing.

[countrycousin.livejournal.com]

A marriage is shared. Variously, depending on the people, but shared. I feel that it should be shared 60 40 - you get 40 and give 60, and that rule is applied to both partners. [I found out recently that Pauling had proposed a modified Golden Rule along similar lines long before I dreamed this up. :-) ] Variously = some have a stay-at-home partner, some don't, and the sharing details vary. Folks have done estimates from time to time of the market value of the work contributed by the stay-at-home partner; the ones I recall outweigh most take-homes, but taxes complicate things. But. We share. Everything. As best we can. :-)

[rockinlibrarian.livejournal.com]

I think you're doing it RIGHT at least-- I suppose it IS different from household to household though. But I see the "buying stuff for someone with their own money" issue, too-- even when it's "our" money, it's still not just MY money, and there are times when the financial situation is like, Well, we don't have the money for you to buy this fun thing for yourself, but when it's your birthday then, uh, I'll buy it for you with the same lack-of-money. So when the budget is tight, I can see asking permission, like, "Would you LIKE a present this year, or do you want to keep that money to save up for X?"

But still, yeah, it's not HIS, it's OURS.

[filkferengi]

First off, you rock! I add lots of value to our household, & I don't do a fraction of the [pro-]creative things you do. I hope that poor poster can find lots of support & encouragement from sensible women like you. Maybe she should read _Ethan of Athos_?